Best reasonable engine platform

[bense]

In my mind I keep contemplating something that I'd like to build eventually. I often think about the kimi (kimini.com) and think about how that guy designed that mid engine mini cooper, yet he had to choose a common production engine. Ultimately he chose the honda h22.

I often think about how my next endeavor will consist of something RWD, and not a transverse setup. I'd like to be able to get 400+ hp at the wheels from thing. However here's what causes me to not sleep at night.

A few years ago, I ranted and raved over how superior DOHC 4valve per cylinder heads were over traditional 'redneck' pushrod OHV engines. The americans needed 5.7 liters of displacement to produce 320hp (ls1), while the germans only needed a 3.2 liter I6 to produce the same amount of power (m3 engine)

But then when I was researching swap options for 318tis, I came across this picture:


The above picture shows a ford mustang cobra 32v 4.6 v8 on the left, with the traditional 5.0 on the right. Both produce nearly the same power, and while the 32v dohc was far superior, it weighed a lot more, cost a lot more, and less tuners were doing R&D on them.

I've then contemplated the lexus v8 engines, but concluded that with the rarity of these engines, the price of them, the lack of transmission options, as in, I don't see a whole lot of close-ratio gear options for toyota/lexus transmissions. I have kinda written them off.

With the fancy bmw engines, although I really like them, but to get one with the dual vamos or whatever, 6speed trans, we're taking big bucks. To the point where a simple ls1 would make more power, cost less, and physically weigh less.

So now I think about the nissan vq35. Of all the v6/v8s that are currently available/feasible. This seems like the best dohc option. And better yet, there's many of them out there. It's not like the m3 setup.

So I'm basically lost, I tend to not want to lean towards the cliche' american 'bigger is better' standard. But I can't seem to come up with any option that is better than a simple american aluminum pushrod v8 to save my life.

I dunno, maybe I'm just going crazy here. But I think about it often. Do any of you guys ever contemplate this stuff? Perhaps there's something I'm overlooking?

And damnit, I'm sick of all these mechanical engineering students that think that because they're in M.E. that they automatically must drive BMWs, and that everything else sucks, and that they know everything about cars. /RANT lol

[jedimario]

I usually figure out a car to put the engine in first when I'm dreaming up projects

[bense]

designing a chassis and fabricating it is less of a task than building an engine

[mdenz3]

Get a 6.0 from a Gm truck with the complete harness, PCM, and transmision, swap a decent cam and L92 heads. 400+ rwhp, for <$2k in a small and fairly light package.

[ZZ231]

bense Wrote:designing a chassis and fabricating it is less of a task than building an engine

I'm gonna have to disagree with you there Bob...

If you're looking for 400 hp there's literally tons of engine setups that can handle that from the factory and can be had in RWD flavor...a few off the top of my head:

3SGTE
K____
SR20
RB26
2JZ
1JZ
F20

I'm not that familiar with Euro cars (I am in fact an ME who DOES NOT drive a BMW or care to delve into any kind of Hitler-sled) so I'm sure there's more, I just don't know 'em

[Clemsons2k]

The engines I often hear about used in builds most often are

LS1
K20
F20 / F22
SR20
2JZ (obviously not budget lol)
B16 / B18

[straight four]

feel like talking to him? Kimini that is.

he posts Regularly on http://www.locostusa.com/forums

[evilevo11]

4G63?

Dirt cheap blocks, old as hell, iron block?

Maybe overkill for just 400 whp?

To me using a V8 for a 400whp application is just leaving too much on the table, when the same can be done with much less weight and parts with a 4 cylinder.

Scorke

[zps2004]

I agree with Sam for 400WHP a 4 cylinder with a turbo and/or supercharger would be the best way to go. I think it is up to personal preference though. I mean I could swap a V8 into the miata but instead I am just going to supercharge it. All personal preference.

[mdenz3]

zps2004 Wrote:I agree with Sam for 400WHP a 4 cylinder with a turbo and/or supercharger would be the best way to go. I think it is up to personal preference though. I mean I could swap a V8 into the miata but instead I am just going to supercharge it. All personal preference.

Agreed on the personal preference part, and personally I'd rather have a V8 that was making the power without breaking a sweat then push a 4cyl.

What is import also, is what is the goal/purpose of this machine?

[straight four]

i always wanted a v8 locost. 2k lbs, 600-700 whp... (magnacharger or all motor)...

i think i will probably start out really simple. just the guts form a fwd (mazda 3speed?) set up in a mid engine layout. setup correctly could get 3/400 whp to those wheels. the tranny has issues on the mazda, but i feel the weight savings would remove those issues. also this way youd be running 1500 lbs...

[stevebullitt]

ZZ231 Wrote:[quote="bense"] Hitler-sled

I'm just cutting my teeth as an ME and I would echo that sentiment. As for the question at hand, that pic you have up should really answer your question in terms of packaging, but don't forget that material is a very important component when it comes to both the cost and the weight of engines. That 302 is mostly iron and in most cases the modular setups are lighter, since they are mostly all aluminum. The current 3V set up in SN197 Mustangs is lighter than a 5.0 at only 420 lbs (including PS pump and A/C!). Also, while the overhead cam designs give more power, they have more parts that can break, those parts are more expensive, and are harder to work on. Pushrod tech may be "redneck", but I'd call attention to that fact that the Corvette uses pushrod motors that are reliable, powerful, and get 26 mpg.

[dave99rt]

straight four Wrote:i always wanted a v8 locost. 2k lbs, 600-700 whp... (magnacharger or all motor)...

i think i will probably start out really simple. just the guts from a fwd (mazda 3speed?) set up in a mid engine layout. setup correctly could get 3/400 whp to those wheels. the tranny has issues on the mazda, but i feel the weight savings would remove those issues. also this way youd be running 1500 lbs...

the madzaspeed3 uses direct injection, horrible choice for doing a full swap, especially into a different chassis.
there are other more powerful, simpler, turbo setups available.

[straight four]

it also has huge issues in the tranny. And power limiting in first would be a negative when i no longer would have to worry about torque steer.

Issue is finding a fwd car with all the goodies i need. (so i can basically put a new car in front of the old car.)
Only other one that i can think of is a Neon SRT4...

Not sure. Its a few years off. I keep bouncing betweed FE rwd v8 and the mid engine.

Other source for decent 200 hp would be a busa or r1 motor using chain drive, but i would have to give up reverse.

[kbrew8991]

can't overlook torque, area under the curve and overall package weight (imo)