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alex3000 · 06-23-2009, 06:31 PM

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Roll-Bars....m20.l1116

Would this be (assuming proper install) NASA/SCCA legal? or any good at all?

Autopower cage is like 1000 bucks so it leads me to believe this would just be shitty/unsafe

**kbrew8991** · 06-23-2009, 08:56 PM

kits kinda suck but will be legal (my race car has one)

read carefully regarding what exact tubing size you'll need for your car's weight. EWS/ERW = not legal, you need DOM - so there's "starting at $499" right there

these items bother me:
- "B D Racing roll cages meet or exceed NHRA & IHRA requirements" (not road racing, though it may be close enough to work)
- "Note, because of differing driver sizes and main hoop locations, roof hoop and windshield down bars are not notched!"
- and the one pictured does not have a proper main hoop cross bar and only one side impact bar

by the time you get that, you're probably right at what an Autopower costs and just a few hundred under what a scratch-built one would cost that fits better - which with you being a tall guy in a small car is VERY important

Theodore · 06-23-2009, 09:17 PM

I spoke with 4 different guys that make roll cages for SCCA and NASA cars in the last two weeks. It's amazing the difference in opinions and methods but one thing they all agreed... don't buy a kit. The obvious reason is that it takes money out of their pocket but three of the guys I spoke with said they had business from people who bought Autopower and were unhappy and had to redo parts of it.

I am thinking about having a round table meeting in August or September for SWCCCR with Steve Eckerich on SCCA rules on roll cages for TT and Road Race, and several cage builders to give their opinions of what to look for when buying, what they like and what they hate and what is risky. I would not expect them to agree on a lot of things. Herb O'Toole might be able to come and show pictorial examples of good and bad and some ugly shots of cages that didn't work. I'd be glad to have a rep from NASA to explain their rules for bars... we all might learn some things that could save some money or our butts. Whether you are looking to buy or build now or somewhere down the road, this could be useful information.

On the cage in question in this thread, I don't enough to comment. I'd listen to Ken B... but I'll quote John Ruskin :
"There is hardly anything in the world that someone cannot make a liittle cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's prey. When you pay too much, you lose a little money... that is all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything because the thing you you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot... it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run ; and if you do that, you will have enough to pay for something better."

Gee...wish I had said that.. wink

alex3000 · 06-23-2009, 09:35 PM

Ted how do you manage to pack so much info and poignancy into every post you make? Seriously...

These are things I know in my heart of hearts though, some things you just can't and shouldn't get cheap

**kbrew8991** · 06-23-2009, 09:50 PM

specs between SCCA and NASA are pretty close - only minor differences and nothing hard to change like tubing sizes afaik

Theodore · 06-24-2009, 06:01 AM

alex3000 Wrote:Ted how do you manage to pack so much info and poignancy into every post you make? Seriously...

Seriously? I'm 51 ...but I spent 16 years in studying in a Shaolin monastery in Tibet..fortunately, I did not take the instructional classes on rope tying nor did I have time to hang around closets. wink

I have known two guys that had bad accidents racing cars ... bad enough it rattled their brains, did internal damage and were never quite right after that. I have known two guys well that were killed. Strange enough, none of these guys could have been saved by a "better built" cage. There is a percentage of accidents where people were injured or killed where a cage COULD have made a difference. That's the percentage we all are interested in. The percentage of controllable risk.

I saw a car in the 80's where the roll bar was literally exhaust pipe but they sleeved the spots where tech would check dimensions through the drilled holes. Idiots. A lot of people are willing to skimp on safety in order to get an edge... a lighter car. A lot of people need to have their heads examined too. A piece of chrome covered plastic and your place in regional racing history is not worth dieing for... and if you cut corners on safety and get killed, you will be remembered...but for being a dumbass.

alex3000 · 06-24-2009, 12:42 PM

Quote:Seriously? I'm 51 ...but I spent 16 years in studying in a Shaolin monastery in Tibet..fortunately, I did not take the instructional classes on rope tying nor did I have time to hang around closets.

is that a reference to that kung fu dude who just died?

Theodore · 06-24-2009, 02:09 PM

alex3000 Wrote:is that a reference to that kung fu dude who just died?

NO NEVER!!!

... well..maybe just a bit... wink

**kbrew8991** · 06-24-2009, 07:45 PM

if you were talking about caging an E30, or Mustang, or something like that -or- if you weren't 6'6" or whatever, the difference between a kit and scratch-built would not be that critical. But with an RX7 and your height you need every millimeter of clearance so that if things do go T.U. you've got room before body parts meet hard stuff

Hraefn · 06-25-2009, 07:21 AM

kbrew8991 Wrote:with an RX7 and your height you need every millimeter of clearance so that if things do go T.U.

For some reason I just got a mental picture of a Mazda with udders.

Theodore · 06-25-2009, 08:11 AM

Nathan.. you still crack me up!!!

That would be a Moozda...