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***humjaba*** · 02-23-2009, 07:39 PM

Heel-toe-ing in my car isn't difficult because of the distance left-to-right between the gas and brake... it's that the gas is a good 4-5" farther back than the brake. Which side of the foot do you guys brake and gas with? I've seen it done with the heel on the brake and toe on the gas, but most of the pro videos I've seen have the toe on the brake swinging around to tap the gas with the ankle on shifts.

**Clemsons2k** · 02-23-2009, 07:56 PM

Supposedly my pedals are made for heal-toeing but I still can't manage to do it smoothly Sad

I've always been shown to put the toes on the brake and use your heal for the throttle blip. Maybe I should try the other way around and see if that works

***humjaba*** · 02-23-2009, 10:00 PM

Well I say the only solution to this quandry is to let me drive your car, Ryan, so I can see if it's the pedals in my stang or my technique Wink

**Clemsons2k** · 02-23-2009, 10:09 PM

Haha, I don't even let my own mother drive my car Tongue

zps2004 · 02-23-2009, 10:12 PM

I thought your car was easy. I don't remember if I tried to heel and toe in a mustang before.

clemsonhatch · 02-23-2009, 11:22 PM

The AE86 with ITB's I drove tonight was a pleasure. It did everything I wanted.

Driving, you either get it or you don't.

Theodore · 02-23-2009, 11:27 PM

Heel toe is hard to get natural. If you ever watch a video of old F1 drivers feet... you notice several things. The speed, the short movement, the smoothness. You wonder how the heck they do it.

Here's a few thoughts...

1. In the old F1 cockpits, pedals are adjusted and are set for ideal foot transfer from pedal to pedal. The flanges of the sides of the pedals are close. Their shoes are very thin where they can feel the pedals and they drive so much, it's second nature. Total movement of pedal is 1 inch on some. Guess what? That makes it a lot easier. Stock cars OEM are not made for heel toe... not even Miatas. If they made them that way people would probably complain!

2. A good step is to look at pedal pads that fit over your present pedals. You can get pedal pads that align closer and make it easier...especially for big feet. Make sure they are mounted right...don't want that coming loose. Where you can adjust travel. It used to be common that if your pedal shifts at 3inches of travel but it continues down for 5 inches, you mount a block of wood at 3 1/2 inches under the pedal.. no need to waste the motion and time moving it 5 inches.

3. Read... there's some great books that go into detail . One chapter of a book I read showed an industrial engineering study of Schumacher and Barichello shifting. They proved that Reubens was losing 1/2 a second per shift through wasted motion because he did not heel toe. Add that up over a track and in equal cars, he was always behind. Shumacher said "I have always used heel toe ever since I ran carts at 8." Reubens said "I have always raced with out heel toe and I have tried to convert and at this point in my carreer, I cannot. " So..while he was a great a great driver, he never could beat Michael in heads up competition. He had his own built in limitation.

4. Practicing heel toe and left foot braking all the time you are driving on the road is a pain.. it makes it harder and you really have to focus. It will help some though... best thing? Hit a go kart track like Victory Lanes. Go as fast as you can with out left foot braking... then start trying it and see how much you can improve. You'll be surprised. Keep trying it at autocross until it is second nature and eventually it will get comfortable. Remember, the purpose is to eliminate wheels locking up or losing traction and keeping your suspension with good traction all the way around for smooth power lay down. If you downshift and tires chirp, you're tearing your tranny up and losing traction. If you upshift and engine slowly climbs, you didn't match revs and lost power in the shift. If you up shift and engine screams to red line, you'll need an engine soon. Lol

Video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuoZeuSgE...re=related
Great Rally video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XR3LOl19G...re=related
Good article here - http://twoguysrally.com/2008/04/07/how-to-heel-toe/

If I sound like an old pro, I gave you a false impression. I do it well with the miata and the Bandit only because I adjusted pedals shape and size and travel to custom fit I like. Lucky TJ. His feet are same size. Lol

To take a Subaru, a Mistu or a Honda and go for an autocross, I'd be totally lost. I drove a Lotus Elise last year at CCR and it took me three runs before I could get a nice smooth transition shift (and then it took a crane to get out of the gorgeous little beastie...)

Our speaker next month at SWCCCR will be Steve Cook...driving instructor for BMW Performance Driving Center and for Skip Barber schools as well. I'll ask him to cover that in depth for you at our next meeitng if you like.

Jrubins · 02-23-2009, 11:28 PM

left foot braking... still weird.
I love to heel toe brake, do it all the time... literally.

Probably the most difficult thing in my car is :
accelerating.
Smile

Jrubins · 02-23-2009, 11:32 PM

Let me amend my above statement.
Most difficult maneuver in my car:
picking up chicks Big Grin

esp with the baby seat !

**Clemsons2k** · 02-24-2009, 06:52 AM

Jrubins Wrote:Let me amend my above statement.
Most difficult maneuver in my car:
picking up chicks

esp with the baby seat !

Hraefn · 02-24-2009, 07:10 AM

Rymansl2 Wrote:
Jrubins Wrote:Let me amend my above statement.
Most difficult maneuver in my car:
picking up chicks

esp with the baby seat !

Pish! I pick up a blonde girl every afternoon with mine!

101101 · 02-24-2009, 11:24 AM

jedimario Wrote:
Ari Wrote:
jedimario Wrote:Heel-toeing in my car; I'm either doing it wrong or my pedals are too far apart

Probably a combination of both, more the former.

some cars its super easy in and some its just near impossible. The pedals in some dont even allow it

I usually wear flip-flops all the time so I always drive barefoot, I think it'd be possible if I were wearing shoes but still pretty tough.

Maybe I'm doing it wrong but I usually have the left edge of my foot on the brake and blip the throttle with the right edge of my foot while braking - works well in MINI and Miata. I do this all the time, it's become so second nature while driving that I find myself hitting the brake on the right edge while driving automatics.

Side note: after a scare going into a highway exit ramp wearing flip-flops I refuse to wear sandals while driving. My foot slipped to the right (off the brake) and I had a brief moment of "oh sh**, I'm not stopping". Lace-up shoes only while driving for me, thank you very much.

evilevo11 · 02-24-2009, 11:52 AM

clemsonhatch Wrote:Driving, you either get it or you don't.

Trooof Bomb.

Scorke

***jedimario*** · 02-24-2009, 12:18 PM

101101 Wrote:Side note: after a scare going into a highway exit ramp wearing flip-flops I refuse to wear sandals while driving. My foot slipped to the right (off the brake) and I had a brief moment of "oh sh**, I'm not stopping". Lace-up shoes only while driving for me, thank you very much.

Were you wearing sandals or barefoot? I'd never keep them on while driving, I always just leave them pushed up against my seat in the floor.

Chaser350Z · 02-24-2009, 12:30 PM

Driving barefoot FTW

I wear sandals year round so im always driving barefoot (although i froze my foot off this morning on the metal pedals).

Ive tried time and again to heal toe with shoes on and it doesnt work. Barefoot its not a problem. I downshift pretty much every chance i get (into 1st too Angry

) so its pretty natural.

And BTW, is barefoot autocross legal? Didnt know about the last one so i wore shoes.