Runaway cars!

[zps2004]

Thats the thing. Most people will not like electronic throttle plates because of bad programming. I have driven a good number of cars with good electronic throttle plates and bad. This is just the same as how BMW and Mercedes have typically used non linear pivots for throttle cables. I can't stand that, but it isn't an effect of it being cable driven it is because of how the factory set it up. So that is completely a non argument.

What your talking about with the LS throttles is the LS1 has the hole for the Idle air control valve. With electronic throttle it adjusts the throttle plate to adjust the idle. Simpler design. Also I know that applications with boost the throttle is used to control boost levels, and it can be used for traction control purposes, instead of cutting timing and fuel. Much smoother, and faster response. Basically since the throttle plate in not connected to the drivers foot, there is another part of the engine which can be controlled by the computer which will end up being a good thing.

[Clemsons2k]

Idk I've never driven a DBW that has the same throttle response that a cable actuated tb does. Plus I prefer for my right foot to do the thinking, not the ECU

[zps2004]

Well the 2 has an awesome DBW. I can't notice any delay at all, and also the Ecotecs are perfect as well. Again that is completely determined by the programming of the system. Just like how Merc cable systems feel like really bad DBW systems. They have 50% throttle at the pedal be about 25% at the throttle plate so it basically feels like a large delay, but for the luxury car market it makes the car smoother to drive. This again is designed by the manufacturer, not a design issue/benefit with the DBW or cable. I have also driven bad DBW systems that were reprogrammed and were just as responsive as a cable.

As far as your foot doing the thinking you are looking at the added functionality of the DBW system wrong. It will still do what you tell it to do, but in cases where something goes wrong the DBW system can be very beneficial. For example your in boost, and something happens to the fuel. Well the throttle plate with a cable will be wide open throwing massive amounts of air, but your only getting 50% fuel. So you will run massively lean until you look at your wideband, if you have one or even look. Now with a DBW system it will notice that and shut the throttle reducing the air volume so you won't run lean. Possibly saving your engine. Also I know that on the Ecotec we bolted the wastegate on the turbo closed, and the throttle body adjusted from fully open to closed to maintain boost, again saving your engine.

Then there is the area of traction control. Being able to adjust the throttle gives another level of control for the engine so you can set the traction control to be more precise, and upset the overall car more making it safer.

[Mr.Rauq]

I will agree that as frequently as people drive cars that are more powerful than the driver can always handle (myself sometimes, especially in the rain) that yes, a computer can probably do a better job of keeping the wheels hooked than I can. And I see what you're saying about DBW being able to compensate for things that a cable TB can't... It's just a little bit of power being taken away from the driver. AND I LIKE MY THROTTLE BODIES LIKE I LIKE MY... where is this going?

[humjaba]

I like the idea of a drive by wire throttle body, but I have yet to drive a manual car with one that is completely transparent. Even on Steve's Shelby I notice the lag (and there's about .25" of pedal travel before there is any response from the engine, which I don't like either). Keep in mind it also greatly simplifies having multiple throttle bodies, which can be good for packaging and performance as well.

[Mr.Rauq]

They probably had the same argument right around the switch from carbs to fuel injection and distributors to distributorless and manual clutch to hydraulic and on and on...

Really no surprise, I guess. Look how much more power we get out of fuel injection/direct injection distributorless motors...

[JB]

I used to be the same way, I hated DBW when it first was implemented, because just like everyone on here says it was laggy.

BUT, its gotten a lot better now. I have driven both boosted and NA cars with DBW and the latest versions are almost imperceptible, at least I thought so. Of course on a boosted car you will still have some turbo lag so its difficult to see how quickly the throttle reacts, but on the M3's V8 it was just as reactive as any cable car I have ever driven. OK, so it has ITB's...well the 5.0 mustang also has DBW and it had instant power, even felt better than the M3's V8 until ~6k...

I love DBW for all the reasons Zach stated. For people doing more than just intake/exhaust mods, knowing that my engine is safe from overboosting because of all the failsafes in place is a great feeling, especially when you are running twice the factory boost levels. I have never had issues with wastegates failing but I still know the engine would be safe from 30+psi if that ever were to happen.

Besides, throttles are a dying technology. Now that companies are going to variable valve LIFT along with timing throttle bodies are no longer needed. In fact I'm pretty sure the latest G37 has no throttles, I know BMW's latest boosted inline 6 and V8's are throttle-less as well.

We are getting close to engines with nearly zero pumping losses, and thus much higher efficiencies. Manufacturers are finally figuring out what diesel fanatics have known for decades...boost + DI + variable valve timing and lift (except for this one) are a trifecta of engine efficiency!

I know I am getting off topic, but Welcome to the AGE OF BOOST!!

[Mr.Rauq]

<--- still thinks fi is cheater motors...

Trying to decide whether I want to go all motor in the future or fi...

[JB]

(12-25-2011 12:38 AM)Mr.Rauq Wrote:  <--- still thinks fi is cheater motors...

Trying to decide whether I want to go all motor in the future or fi...

Making motors more efficient is cheating? Lol...better not put a intake on...you will be cheating

But for real, besides adding a bit more complexity to the setup FI is nearly free powa. Shoot, Edelbrock and several other twin screw style chargers make simple bolt-on kits, not even a oil source is needed. You V8 guys are lucky, its soooo easy to make stupid power with FI. The ppl with small motors are just making up for their lack of displacement.

[jedimario]

Pssh (or lack thereof), a good port, exhaust, and intake and my 1.3L will make 280HP without FI while maintaining driveability and reliability. Replacement for displacement.

[zps2004]

Robbie after market doesn't count. They are talking OEM, you know that.

[jedimario]

Actually I pretty much just read the last two posts before mine

[Bificus]

Just something about driving a car with no nannys few computers and lots of noise. My 280 always puts a smile on my face when driving. My 2.0T VW isnt bad but, I prefer the tactile feel of the Z > VW.