Ted I believe what ken is talking about is that the Shelby is a special edition with better performance than a GT yet it is in the same class. Likewise the integras in DS are Type-R's which are also more of a special car that is modified from the base form factory yet is in the same class. Also we all know that CR's are faster than normal S2000's yet are in the same class.
I personally don't have an issue with this since it would be hard to enforce otherwise because it would have to be on a case by case basis. For example. My 2002 civic I had had a honda factory performance package. The 2 things autocrossing would be concerned with are that is was 1" lower than stock and had wider wheels. This could have lead to a competitive edge if you bought that specific civic, and I was yelled at for it. I went to an autocross in Myrtle beach and I had to prove that my car was lowered by a factory option because the tech guy was in my class and I always beat him.
zps2004 Wrote:Ted I believe what ken is talking about is that the Shelby is a special edition with better performance than a GT yet it is in the same class. Likewise the integras in DS are Type-R's which are also more of a special car that is modified from the base form factory yet is in the same class. Also we all know that CR's are faster than normal S2000's yet are in the same class.
I personally don't have an issue with this since it would be hard to enforce otherwise because it would have to be on a case by case basis. For example. My 2002 civic I had had a honda factory performance package. The 2 things autocrossing would be concerned with are that is was 1" lower than stock and had wider wheels. This could have lead to a competitive edge if you bought that specific civic, and I was yelled at for it. I went to an autocross in Myrtle beach and I had to prove that my car was lowered by a factory option because the tech guy was in my class and I always beat him.
In the NASA-X rules it says "factory options and specialty model parts are considered non-OEM." So it seems he should take points for everything that the Shelby has over the base GT.
Ken, as we all know classing systems are never perfect and always can use updating. One question. Don't the specialty cars w/ more performance parts etc... get a * or automatic points added to their base class? I'm pretty sure my car is since it's an Si vs. a std. Civic.
Thats true because the s2000 CR just has a * when the normal one doesn't. So maybe the Shelby should be a NXC*? Would be a good thing to email the NASA auto-X rules guy about. I remember emailing him at the end of this spring with some comments.
zps2004 Wrote:Ted I believe what ken is talking about is that the Shelby is a special edition with better performance than a GT yet it is in the same class. Likewise the integras in DS are Type-R's which are also more of a special car that is modified from the base form factory yet is in the same class. Also we all know that CR's are faster than normal S2000's yet are in the same class.
.
Zach..it's hard to say" better performance" all inclusively... CRs do have more power, they might have better handling or faster in a straight line but fact is, it didn't win at Solo II Nationals as Ken stated. Lots of "better performing" special editions get beat all the time in Solo II. Just because it's the latest, greatest with more power or special options doesn't mean THAT car will win. Why state an opinion and argue with documented results in a club you don't run with? CR's won 2nd, 5th and 9th while regular S2000s took 4th , 6th and 10th. The top four S2000s had less than a second between them and they all still lost to an 89 Corvette! Hard to spin that as " SCCA's master plan" but everyone has a right to their opinion.. inspite of facts.
Enough said about this. Just wanted facts to be presented.
Let's get back to sunday and a CSCC event!
Do we have a Novice Steward appointed to arrange instructors/ride alongs?
an asterix may be too much or too little depending on how different it the "base" and "special" versions are. Its done on a case-by-case basis with TT, I'd expect the same with autox. If its some sport package like you see on BMWs where its shocks/springs/swaybars an axterix is probably enough (those parts are 7pts btw
) - if its the difference between a regular Integra and an ITR, well... might need more than just 7 there (I know they're listed separate, used for illustrative purposes though).
and Ted - the FS Shelby IS a special edition, as were the ITRs you mention in DS, etc
. Thanks for completely missing the point as well
Do you miss apexes this badly?!?
All I was attempting to do before you got so anal retentive was explain the way the cat is skinned with the ruleset and how its skinned differently than what most autoxers are used to. Either way is messy, as nothing is perfect.
NASA-X (when done right) is probably better for CSCC though due largely to the relatively small (but not too small) number of classes in the end. Before we brought it on board there were just 3 classes - Club Car, Street Tire, and Open
and before that - no classes whatsoever
zps2004 Wrote:Thats true because the s2000 CR just has a * when the normal one doesn't. So maybe the Shelby should be a NXC*? Would be a good thing to email the NASA auto-X rules guy about. I remember emailing him at the end of this spring with some comments.
get me your contact info if you want to be "the classing guy" and I'll bug John to get back to you. He does wear quite a few hats with NASA-MA, but nothing insurmountable with a little bit of pestering.
I want to do what I can from here to make sure you guys have what you need to get this classing structure to work for you -
IF thats what you guys want to use. If you don't, I'll save the electrons
Your panties were in a wad first
Mr. IWentAndBrokeOutStatsToEPwnSomeone
Sorry...what was i thinking... I should know never to argue with you with facts. It makes you soooo .... Brewerish!
Okay...now back to regularly scheduled programming.
All the other EP3s are going down!!!1!1
Clemsons2k Wrote:I hate both of you miata whores..... 
Sorry Zach, I'm staying in D.
Ted I know your point, I was just saying that every special edition or rareish model has a different amount of performance gain or loss. So it would be hard to look at each case. So i would say keep it in the same class.
Also I am planning on being an instructor for group 1 and 2.
Ken I would talk with him but I am graduating in December then moving somewhere so I am sure it would be better is someone else did it.
jedimario Wrote:All the other EP3s are going down!!!1!1
LOL
wait....who is the 03 WRX signed up? DAMN, I could have ALMOST said all Impreza's are going down... Mr Perry Ellwood from Saluda, NC.
All 02 Impreza's are going down, lol.... score...
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