Hey all
So on the caesar's head run the other day, my pads started fading pretty quickly. I know Ford brakes are terrible, but my 3-year-old fluid and duralast pads aren't helping matters. So for monthly autocrosses, occasional mountain runs and daily commuting to school, what say you?
I've heard that hawk hps are good but overheat pretty easily, hp+ is better but dust alot, and carbotech xr6 are awesome but need some heat before they work. Keep in mind my car is 3300lbs and has tiny 11" single-piston front brakes. Upgrading to the cobra 13" rotor + dual piston caliper is an option, though that's quite a bit more expensive.
I have Hawk hps pads on the 240... But also i have Big 4 piston 300zx brakes with big rotors. The hps do not dust alot but I have never tracked/autocrossed the 240 so i couldnt tell you how they hold up
I'm a fan of Porterfield R4S pads. I ran them on my 240SX for several years. They have very good fade resistance, put off a light-to-moderate amount of pale gray dust, and have good initial bite in anything warmer than the first stop after being parked overnight in sub-freezing temps. They also wore a whole lot better than I expected, given frequent autocrosses, slotted rotors and my tendency to brake pretty late into corners.
(09-01-2010 10:00 PM)humjaba Wrote: [ -> ]carbotech xr6
AX6?
Don't get them for your every day pads (what it sounds like these may be). There's a reason I sold a very lightly used set for my MINI -- they scream like banshees when cold (as in most around town driving). Don't get me wrong, they felt amazing and could stop FAR better than stock, but I'll never use them as a daily pad again.
It sounds like you want a good daily driver pad (low temp, quiet, low dust) and a good high performance pad (high temp, dust / noise not an issue). I don't know of any pad I would use for both these purposes. You have a mustang, so you'll be able to get high speeds on track and then need to shed it quickly for turns - I wouldn't use a street pad for that unless its maybe your first track weekend or two (in my Miata I was overheating my auto-x / street pads from the previous owner on my second weekend).
I almost have to recommend getting two sets of pads - a cheap every day pad and then a track pad. Yeah, it's more money, but otherwise it involves too many compromises in the performance of one function you want. If you don't mind such compromises, which are you willing to not have it do so well? Are you okay with more noise or less track performance? Before you say noise, just think about the next time you go on a date and have to try to explain that the brakes making that noise is normal, nothing to be worried about (yeah, teaches me to put in new pads hours before a date when I'm unsure how much noise they'll make). Before you say track, think about doing 100+ mph going into a hard turn, pushing the brake pedal, and feeling the car slow not as quickly as it had earlier in the day while that turn is coming up very quickly (hello, CMP...). Obviously I came out of both of these events fine, but after each one when I got home the first thing I did was order new pads specific to that application.
Oh yeah, you mentioned autocross. Obviously I autocross a Miata which you drive different than a Mustang, but in my car if you use the brakes heavily in an autocross you're doing it wrong. I wouldn't worry about overheating street pads in an autocross and think you could get a set of high performance street pads and be fine for DD as well as auto-x. Wait until you get on track and get a set of track pads before you go.
I'll likely not be doing any heavy track driving in the mustang. Not only are the brakes crap, but I'm not sure my transmission would hold up to that kind of abuse either. I've never had any problems with fade in autocross; only on the downhill section of mountain runs. I dont want squealing, because that would drive me crazy on my drive from berkeley to school every morning. So the ax6 are out... Hawk HPS are sounding better.
Well said Rob... it's kind of like taking a street car and making it good autocross car and making it a good track day car. You can do one well... but anything else is compromises. You'll try and fight it but eventually you will be able to do all three events but none of them well.
Brake pads are not that bad to change and you will have to buy them less frequently if you swap them when going from street to track and have a set dedicated to each.
I put some Gransport pads on my formula. They were a huge step up from whatever was on the car in terms of shorter stopping distances. So far they've been quiet with good bite when they are both cold and hot (nice for for daily driving), and they have performed great at the CSCC autocrosses so far. The reason I went with these is because of the price. Don't know how they would fade in a track situation though.
So I re-read my initial post; I meant to say occasional mountain runs, not track days... If I ever went on track I'd definitely swap out pads.
Just get a good set of front pads and swap them out before a mountain run or AX.
I say unless you are going on track I wouldn't worry about getting good pads. If you are overheating on downhill mountain run then just don't brake so hard, especially on a downhill only bad things happen and it just isn't worth it. I run $20 duralast brake pads and I love them. Last forever, very low dust, and unless I am driving hard on the downhill I don't have fade issues. They don't give the best feedback, but if you can stop well on them then stopping on real pads is really easy, like when I get in the racecar. I had a good set of pads on the Civic, carbotech AX6, and they were great for stopping, but since I never got them up to temp on the street, they lasted for 7 months. $140 every 7 months for good pads is not worth it.
I say unless your going on track, buy cheap pads, and use good fluid.
brake pad selection is a very car-specific thing. What might be dusty, fades too fast, sucks, noisy, etc on one car might not be on another.
That said I do like the Porterfield R4S and Carbotech XP8 on MR2s.
(09-02-2010 09:38 AM)zps2004 Wrote: [ -> ]I say unless you are going on track I wouldn't worry about getting good pads. If you are overheating on downhill mountain run then just don't brake so hard, especially on a downhill only bad things happen and it just isn't worth it. I run $20 duralast brake pads and I love them. Last forever, very low dust, and unless I am driving hard on the downhill I don't have fade issues. They don't give the best feedback, but if you can stop well on them then stopping on real pads is really easy, like when I get in the racecar. I had a good set of pads on the Civic, carbotech AX6, and they were great for stopping, but since I never got them up to temp on the street, they lasted for 7 months. $140 every 7 months for good pads is not worth it.
I say unless your going on track, buy cheap pads, and use good fluid.
That works on a miata. I've got no-name pads on my miata back at home and havent had a problem. It doesn't work on a 3350lbs+driver mustang, though. They were toast after 3 turns. Put it this way: first stop from 70 would be good, second would be bad, third you'd keep rolling indefinitely. That's how bad my current pads overheat. I'm leaning towards Hawk HPS right now. AX6 are a little too track oriented for what I've got in mind.
Are you sure your fluid is good?
As far as having better pads. I have smoked a set of HP+'s going downhill in the civic and been in a miata on the street and the HP+'s lit on fire, so I don't think the HPS's will be what you need. I say cheap for the street and get a good set for anything else, just have fun changing them all of the time. Oh cooling night not be hard to do either. Our setup on the racecar is cheap and effective.
(09-02-2010 02:40 PM)zps2004 Wrote: [ -> ]Are you sure your fluid is good?
As far as having better pads. I have smoked a set of HP+'s going downhill in the civic and been in a miata on the street and the HP+'s lit on fire, so I don't think the HPS's will be what you need. I say cheap for the street and get a good set for anything else, just have fun changing them all of the time. Oh cooling night not be hard to do either. Our setup on the racecar is cheap and effective.
The fluid wasn't boiling, and my brakes weren't entirely gone, but they were fading fast.