Any pointers for an inexpensive SCCA stock- or (mild)ST-class build for a 2004 civic?
My co-driver is getting the bug to trade his very reasonable, paid-for civic on something much less practical. Since it's his only car, I'm hoping to just talk him into mild modifications. I'm thinking a front sway to start, and maybe some lightweight inexpensive wheels to mount better tires, but I have little time to do the research.
I guess I should chime in for this, lol. for stock class I would say that the key for performance is to get as much camber in the front and as little in the rear as possible. From factory the rear comes with a bunch of negative camber. I am not sure if the the front sway would help that much because the front it decently stiff. It might help though. Like the usual FWD I would run about 38PSI in the front and the rears at 50.
for ST I had an awesome setup in my car. I had Koni yellows, with ground controls, 440F and 550R. I also had the ground control camber plates in the front, quite important for suspension travel. For rear camber adjustment about anything will work. I also had the comtech competition sway bars. I tried to use the normal 22mm rear sway bar, but it didn't rotatr quite right. The 27mm you get with the comptech kit was the key. I would definitely say that next to Ohlins it is the best setup.
Suggest he try to get a drive in something similar? He may spend all the money and find he still doesn't like how the car drives, then he has to sell the parts or try to sell a modified car. Same goes for whatever his targeted "next" car would be.
You've had this sickness, you should know how it works
Maybe have him put together a budget. Seeing the costs of parts (or a new car) compared with whatever disposable income he has can put things into perspective. (I try to never do this...hence why I'm in such bad shape.)
its a fwd car, do a rear sway first. front sways help rwd cars more, but not so much in fwd cars.
rear sway is a no-go in SCCA stock class though... good advice for the ST_ build though
Rear sway first is an easy option but it isn't the best thing to do. The stiffness is usually too high in the rear at that point compared to the front. I know I was there.
I'll agree with the above posts on not going with the rear sway as the first upgrade. In regards to progressing experience-wise as a driver, from what I've been told, sway bars are one of the modifications you'll want to do later rather than sooner. It's hard to resist since they're quite cheap compared to most other modifications.
Light wheels and grippy tires (streets before R comps... R comps mask too many mistakes), new shocks, new springs (or coilovers), and then sway bars, in that order, is what I've seen and been told is one of the best progression paths to modify a car in, with gaining experience and skill being the key objective.
I'm getting too off topic... sometimes, I wonder why something like sway bars, which inherently increase stiffness and roll resistance, reduce weight transfer (but at the same time can cause the car to get loose a little easier) are so desired. A well set-up suspension with stiff springs and well-valved shocks should be able to compensate without creating any loss in grip.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm open to ideas. But for my input: an extra set of wheels and tires would be a great way to satisfy that bug for a good amount of time.
(04-04-2010 06:07 PM)Devil07 Wrote: [ -> ]I'm getting too off topic... sometimes, I wonder why something like sway bars, which inherently increase stiffness and roll resistance, reduce weight transfer (but at the same time can cause the car to get loose a little easier) are so desired. A well set-up suspension with stiff springs and well-valved shocks should be able to compensate without creating any loss in grip.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm open to ideas. But for my input: an extra set of wheels and tires would be a great way to satisfy that bug for a good amount of time.
Thanks for the input guys.
For what it's worth, my MR2 setup has no sway bars. We'll see how it does in the next couple events.
(04-04-2010 06:07 PM)Devil07 Wrote: [ -> ]I'm getting too off topic... sometimes, I wonder why something like sway bars, which inherently increase stiffness and roll resistance, reduce weight transfer (but at the same time can cause the car to get loose a little easier) are so desired. A well set-up suspension with stiff springs and well-valved shocks should be able to compensate without creating any loss in grip.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm open to ideas. But for my input: an extra set of wheels and tires would be a great way to satisfy that bug for a good amount of time.
all fine until you try to drive a car everyday with spring rates that'll do that and price a set of shocks/struts can keep up, koni's don't do it.
swaybars are a good way to control rotation and camber gain.
i'd put an oem rear swaybar on, not a huge aftermarket.